Curse

Dougal Kronik · Aug 17, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Have a Secondary Profession changer in the Guild Hall.

I don't support the Armor Stat changer. If you want to change the stats/runes - buy some more.

For PvP - let them change armor and runes at the temple.

Lock down the inventory window while in combat, and for 5 seconds after fighting (either hitting or being hit).

Jetdoc · Aug 17, 2006, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I mean, mapping back to the desert, if your in Cantha, is a total pain, and vice versa if you've unlocked secondaries in Cantha, but are now in Tyria.

The first shouldn't be a problem if you've become Closer to the Stars in Cantha...but the second is definitely a minor inconvenience if you want an assassin or ritualist secondary.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Aug 17, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

actionjack"
"There is a thing call getting-another-set-of-armor if you want to change."
There is a fact that storage capacity is extremely limited.

Why deny this, if the player has already earned it, for example, by questing, and by paying the necessary costs, which would be equivalent to crafting a new armor.

"It is one of the debate about should game be real easy and convient, vs. the some time necessary rule and regulartion and laws."
About the Secondary Profession Changer, it is about saving time.

Do you know how much time is wasted on those loading screens while zoning through maps?

About the Armor Stats, Runes being changable, that one is a proposed new mechanic, in which the majority of the community will find it hard to digest.

"And why should you have up to 4 differnt armor?"
Why should I not be able to? If I can afford it, and rightfully earned it.

"Isn't it part of the fun, especially in a RPG game, to achieve a set goal (in this class, getting new armor) with time-consuming playing over time?"
Isn't it
Isn't getting our armor fully upgraded to be able to change stats and runes fun also?

"Ask your self why you desire more than one set of armor (it is not necessary afterall), and follow that train of thought,"
I desire more than one set of armor stats, because I want more options.

While it might not be absolutely necessary, it would make life easier for RPG characters.

PvP-only characters can reroll if they wanted a new armorstats.

"you might come to the conlusion that it is a mechanic that the Dev put in as a so call "game play"
Existing "Game Mechanics" are subject to change:
- refund points no longer exist
- costs of skills are capped at 1k
- bosses are "stronger"
- etc

New "Game Mechanics" will be added:
- Crafting Materials Storage
- Profession Changer in Temple of Balthazar
- etc

"It would make game easy, but will it really make it more fun?"
One would still have to go through the process of "upgrading" one's armor to achieve the ability to change the stats and runes of its armor. It would make PvE life more convenient.

Players can still buy new armors for aesthetic purposes.

For me, more options, less time wasted between loading screens, is fun.

"too flexible of character change, as it cuts into much of character development, make each character less unique, allow people to eaiser change into the build of the latest fad,"
Characters would have the abilty to become more unique if they have more options regarding character development.

What makes up a Guild Wars character?
1. Primary & Secondary Profession
2. Types of Armor Stats choosen
3. Types of Runes applied onto Armor
4. Choice of 8 Skills
5. Distribution of Attribute Points

The 6th would be the aestheic appearance of the chosen armor.

For most of the RPG characters, point 2 & 3 are usually very limited, due to limited armor storage capacity, or insufficient funds. Point 1 is just very time consuming at the moment.

Guild Wars already support the "have it all", "own it all" concept with skills, our characters are able to learn all the skills, if they have the necessary skill points, and the gold.

"and might even decrease the game playablity because it make things less challenging and less to work-for."
Game re-playability would be increased, the quests to "upgrade" the armor can be made "challenging", and it would definitely be a lot to work for to have the armor fully "upgraded".

Jetdoc · Aug 17, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

Do you know how much time is wasted on those loading screens while zoning through maps?

About 15 seconds?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

For most of the RPG characters, point 2 & 3 are usually very limited, due to limited armor storage capacity, or insufficient funds. Point 1 is just very time consuming at the moment.

Game re-playability would be increased, the quests to "upgrade" the armor can be made "challenging", and it would definitely be a lot to work for to have the armor fully "upgraded".

Now this is where I differ - it sounds like you are saying that you should be able to switch armor, much like secondaries, if you complete some series of quests. Armor is not intangible like skills, attribute points or even secondaries - it is a tangible commodity that you shouldn't be able to alter because some "power of the gods" allows you to do so. It just plain wouldn't fit any sort of logical story-telling mode, unlike the other "intangible" matters I refer to above.

But I digress - for a "discussion", there seems to be a bit of defensiveness by the OP to criticism to the idea...

xiaotsu · Aug 18, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Why disable armor swapping in combat? There's no reason you shouldn't be able to, other than to make it more realistic, and if that were the case, get rid of the ability for inventories to hold so many weapons, surely no one could hold that much weight and still be able to fight correctly..../sigh
^That last bit was sarcasm, for those of you not...intelligent enough to realize

/notsigned for anything but the 2nd profession change in the [H] screen...the rest is just pointless. Having multiple sets of armor with different stats is a good thing, why? Money sink. If you let people change the stats of their armor in town then they won't buy more armor which means more money will be floating around, which ANet is apparently against...same with runes...

And please, don't try to criticise my opinion like you have everyone elses, just respect that we're big enough to voice our opposition to your suggestion

. I'm deadset on disagreeing with 97% of your suggestion, because it helps the lazy/poor(I'm not rich...I have just enough to get by.). We should be trying to stop the lazy, not condoning their laziness.

Anakin The Paladin · Aug 18, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Ive thought about this for awhile and I continue to think its a great idea.

/signed

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Aug 18, 2006, 12:35 AM // 00:35

"About 15 seconds?"
The actual amount of time varies depending on the type of computer and internet connection used, and the route that the data packets went through.

If we are taking an average of 15 seconds, it would still be an average of 30+ seconds if there is a Profession Changer in the Guild Hall.

"Now this is where I differ - it sounds like you are saying that you should be able to switch armor, much like secondaries, if you complete some series of quests."
Should be able to switch the stats of our armor, if we have rightfully earned it.

"Armor is not intangible like skills, attribute points or even secondaries - it is a tangible commodity that you shouldn't be able to alter because some "power of the gods" allows you to do so."
Take a look at our existing weapon upgrades:
- Sundering 20/20
- Health +30
- Defense +5
- etc

Do we question how:
- those weapon hilts, grips, pommels grants us those bonus stats?
- easily we can replace those weapon upgrades by applying a new weapon onto the weapon?

The same would apply for Runes

"It just plain wouldn't fit any sort of logical story-telling mode, unlike the other "intangible" matters I refer to above."
Why would it not?
Guild Wars is set out in a fantasy world where ancient and powerful magicks exist. Anything is possible.

"If you let people change the stats of their armor in town then they won't buy more armor which means more money will be floating around, which ANet is apparently against...same with runes..."
People would still need to work hard to fully upgrade their armor before they can change the stats of their armor while in town.

All the necessary costs in terms of gold, materials would still be involved in the process of upgrading the armor.
People would still purchase new armors for aesthetic purposes.

It would still be a money sink.

"because it helps the lazy/poor(I'm not rich...I have just enough to get by.).
We should be trying to stop the lazy, not condoning their laziness."
How does it "helps the lazy/poor"?
All the necessary costs in purchasing a new armor in terms of materials, gold would still be involved.
It would still be the same as purchasing a new set of armor, but the storage issue is resolved.

actionjack · Aug 18, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

actionjack"

[/b]

I won't quote the whole thing.. see above post.

On the issue of Armor stat change. I think many people agree that buying or grinding for new Armor is one of the main "goal" of the game. It keep them playing, in in term, translated into "game-play-time" in the eye of developer that they could tag their game with.

One of the key point you suggest is that you have to "Earn" it (or unlock it) before you can change to it. I fully agree this, and would convience me to side with you.... almost. For one, it seem unrealistic. For another, it might decrease player's "wants" to get them self another set of armor (or differnt runes and such). Lastly, too flexiable.

Even I dislike how Faction have one armor skin with all different stats. It has to be done (due to the inablity to access to older armor, thus smaller choice) but Prophcy way, in which each armor have its own indivisual stats, should be the better way to go, as you can tell a character's role just by its armor.

On the lack of storage, well, I guess devs just think it would be fun for us to play Item Management with our limited inventory spaces. Many many other RPG also have this "feature". You carry what you need, or you BUY a pack-mual character, choice are simple.

But I would recomand making a change. Add a new type of crafter intown (or hidden in a exploration area), where they could offer to:

-Seperate the Runes and Armor on your armor piece for you, and
-Change the armor stat to be similar to that of another one.

Of couse, such service would not come cheap (gold sink?). (maybe 500 to 1k gold), and might even have you the need to buy the armor with the stats you want to "fuse it" (depend on how grindlicious they want to make it). That would be my solution to your problem.

xiaotsu · Aug 18, 2006, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Why can't you just let people have their opinions? Why must you try to find a way to counter everything anyone says, Tuoba? Doesn't matter, my point still stands, whether they have to upgrade the armor first or not, I always felt that limited-storage was a good thing, it makes it so you can't have everything you want, only stuff you 'need'. More than one armor set isn't really 'needed'; you could save storage space by just not buying more than one...I've never used more than one and I do just fine...

Back to my point, we all have our opinions, and I'm sure most of us couldn't care less about your counter arguments to them...so please, stop trying to give an answer to every problem we point out, it's rather annoying.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Aug 19, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

"I think many people agree that buying or grinding for new Armor is one of the main "goal" of the game. It keep them playing, in in term, translated into "game-play-time" in the eye of developer that they could tag their game with."
There are a lot of players who just choose one set of armor carefully, and stick with it. With the ability to upgrade our armor, these group of players might actually spend more resources than before on their armor.

Furthermore, this could also act as a main goal for players to achieve.

"For one, it seem unrealistic."
Agreed. But my arguement is that Guild Wars being a magical world, this should not be an issue.

"For another, it might decrease player's "wants" to get them self another set of armor (or differnt runes and such)."
This is possible, but there are players who would want to get new armor for aesthetic reasons.

"Lastly, too flexiable."
Mate, this is the whole point of this thread, to make our characters more flexible.

"Even I dislike how Faction have one armor skin with all different stats."
For myself, I like this 'new feature' very much.

"each armor have its own indivisual stats, should be the better way to go, as you can tell a character's role just by its armor."
This is true for Prophesies, but ANET change that when they rolled out Factions. But if this your arguement, then how would you explain the Obsidian Armor? Obsidian Armor is "one armor skin but with different stats".

"I guess devs just think it would be fun for us to play Item Management with our limited inventory spaces."
This could be possible. If this is the case, then the ideas proposed in this thread would probably not be implemented. But then again, if there is enough demand and support for it, things might turn out different.

Thanks for the idea, actionjack. Much appreciated.

"Seperate the Runes and Armor on your armor piece for you,"
This would only really work for those expensive Runes though, since most of the runes are quite cheap, their prices usually lower than 500 ~ 1,000

"Change the armor stat to be similar to that of another one"
I believe many people would welcome this new feature. Though the one that I proposed would be a more permanent solution.

"(maybe 500 to 1k gold)"
If it is to be a one time payment, then I would say it is reasonable, but each time? It costs 1.5k gold to craft a new armor, like you and many have suggested before, a armor storage would be better then.

But, as I have mentioned before, this implementation would make Guild Wars more unique and stand out among the crowd.

Why must Guild Wars follow other types of MMORPGs? Why can't Guild Wars come up with its own unique type of game mechanics? Guild War already has a very unique gameplay system:
- Primary & Secondary Professions
- 8 skills per skill bar
- No Health & Mana Potions
- etc

Must we mould Guild Wars into every MMORPG clone out there?
Why can't we all strive to make Guild Wars a more unique game?

mega_jamie · Aug 19, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

I certainly like the idea of being able to change secondary at will once ive learnt one.

It was very annoying today mappying from Desert > Keineng > Seijun > Lions Arch > Desert

just to change from Rit/Mo to Rit/Me, especially since I forgot to pick my Keineng distrct and on this computer that was not a good thing to get dropped into District 1, especially with all the random lag today, I think at one point I looked at the same screen for 4 mins.

So yeah, once you have learnt a profession, I see no reason why u cant just go "im going to be a xx/Mo instead of an xx/Ra today!"

Kai Nui · Aug 19, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

I would buy multiple sets of armor if they weren't so circumstantial and take up so much room that I can't afford to lose. Not only that, but the cost to swap between superior and minor runes is a hassle, aswell as when infusing every set. At this point aesthetics are the last thing I'd think of. Sure, you may like dyes and 15K armors, but I think people should have the freedom to change their armor to match the situation. You wouldn't use Mantra of Flame in the Southern Shiverpeaks would you?

Sli Ander · Aug 20, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03

I do think that the profession changer doesn't seem rpg'ish, but for any of these ideas it would be great to see the npc's available. For the profession one, make it so you have to go to Destiny's gorge to change a profession before any of these Npc's would allow you to speak to them. That way its unlockable.

As for the armor, why not have it so only the basic/collector armor is unlockable as you go along, while 1.5, 15k, and FoW/UW armor is not unlockable. That way its more 'realistic' in that you still have to use an armor npc for the fancy stuff(as your character is a fighter type char and can figure out the basic armor, not a craftsman that can make the best) while you can always get functionality. And as for messing with the market for crafting goods, simply require that the character have the proper amounts in their sack before being able to make the basic armor. That way you still have to get the supplies instead of simply creating collector/basic armor out of thin air.

But thats just my 2 cents. I'd really like to see where this idea ends up, it seems like it could grow into something rather useful in the game.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Aug 21, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

To summarize up things again:

The main point that is being brought up in this thread is about the freedom of statistical alteration for our characters, both RPG and PvP-only.

Total freedom to alter our:
- Secondary Professions
- Armor Stats of
* Head Piece
* Chest Piece
* Pants
* Gloves
* Boots
- Runes applied onto any armor pieces
While the character is in towns or outposts.

For PvP-only characters, these features would be accessable straight away.

For RPG characters, they will have to earn it first, through a series of quests, and they must have all the necessary costs in terms of any required crafting materials and gold.

Discuss.

dawnrain · Aug 21, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

You still have to spend the crafting costs. You still have to obtain the required materials. You still have to obtain the rune you wish to apply. Ultimately, all the proposed armor interface does is allow you to access the appropriate armor crafter npc without map traveling to their location?

Dougal Kronik · Aug 21, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Tuoba, your premise is good for PvP where I think most of the PvP community would welcome these additions.

But for PvE, part of the aspect of "roleplaying" a character is managing the financial and spatial aspects of your character. There is a "reality" root to increase your playing association with your character. If this wasn't an aspect of the "roleplay" aspect - they would just allow unlimited storage (within the data storage capabilities of the servers).

I do not agree with the ability to change stats on your armor, or to remove runes. Runes are added and consumed on being placed in the specific piece of armor. You already have the ability to replace runes just be placing a new rune over the last. Sure, you lose the last rune's mods but it is still replaced.

I do think there should be a second profession changer in the Guild Hall. Once you've done the required quest in Tyria, or paid for the ability in Cantha. For those players not part of any Guild - they'll just have to Travel to the outposts that have the Profession Changer.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Aug 23, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

"Ultimately, all the proposed armor interface does is allow you to access the appropriate armor crafter npc without map traveling to their location?"
Proposed Armor Interface would allow the character to be able to change the stats and runes of their various armor pieces when they have upgraded that particular armor piece.

"But for PvE, part of the aspect of "roleplaying" a character is managing the financial and spatial aspects of your character."
This I agree. But it can be also said that the process of uprading one's character is also a possible new aspect of "roleplaying", plus there is also financial management involved.

"There is a "reality" root to increase your playing association with your character."
I am unable to understand this line of text fully, perhaps you could be able to elabore more in detail about what you are trying to say here?

"If this wasn't an aspect of the "roleplay" aspect - they would just allow unlimited storage (within the data storage capabilities of the servers)."
Unlimited storage would not work. Storage for general items would be finite. On the other hand, armor stats is limited, though the number is expected to increase with the addition of each new Guild Wars chapter.

"Runes are added and consumed on being placed in the specific piece of armor. You already have the ability to replace runes just be placing a new rune over the last. Sure, you lose the last rune's mods but it is still replaced."
That is the current and existing game mechanics, and is how runes function at the moment. The ideas proposed in this topic of discussion will attempt to change that.

"I do think there should be a second profession changer in the Guild Hall."
Agreed. But I believe that being able to change our secondary professions without having to waste time on loading screens is a very much better option.

dawnrain · Aug 23, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

For RPG characters, they will have to earn it first, through a series of quests, and they must have all the necessary costs in terms of any required crafting materials and gold.

"Ultimately, all the proposed armor interface does is allow you to access the appropriate armor crafter npc without map traveling to their location?"
Proposed Armor Interface would allow the character to be able to change the stats and runes of their various armor pieces when they have upgraded that particular armor piece.

Is the upgrade a one-time process? After upgrading an armor piece, does that mean that future stat alteration of that piece doesn't require additional crafting materials, gold and runes?

Is the cost (materials plus gold) the same whether one continually uses the proposed armor interface or continually visits the appropriate armor crafter?

The current armor system is a gold (if you continually recraft and delete armor)/inventory (if you don't delete previously crafted armor) sink. Does the proposed armor interface "get around" this sink?

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Aug 23, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

"Is the upgrade a one-time process? After upgrading an armor piece, does that mean that future stat alteration of that piece doesn't require additional crafting materials, gold and runes?"
Yes. This would be correct.
For example, a warrior chest piece originally started off as with Gladiator's stats, over time, the player upgraded that piece several times, and in the end, it is able to change the armor stats of that chest piece into either Gladiator's, Knight's or Sentinel's.

"Is the cost (materials plus gold) the same whether one continually uses the proposed armor interface or continually visits the appropriate armor crafter?"
This will be up to ANET to decide, should ANET ever decides to implement something similiar as proposed in this topic of discussion.

Whether or not the things proposed in this topic of discussion will depend on the degree of demand and support from the community.

"The current armor system is a gold (if you continually recraft and delete armor)/inventory (if you don't delete previously crafted armor) sink. Does the proposed armor interface "get around" this sink?"
In a way, yes.
It will act to replace the current system, players will no longer need to delete their armor due to insufficient inventory storage if they desire new armor stats.

However, players will still need to craft new armors if they desire new armors with better aesthetic features.

DigitalForm · Aug 24, 2006, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

... Say, one day, while your character is in towns or outposts, we are able to change our
1. Secondary Profession through the Hero Screen [H] ...

Not sure on any of these but I would like a change to switching secondaries. I think having it in the Hero window kinda makes it cheap feeling. I think it would be better to put a changer in the locations where the Boat stops (LA, K. Center, the next town). It is annoying for me especially since I am on 56K to warp all over the place, and the less data I have to load is less data the server has to stream to meI never understood why my character couldn't decide to change his/her secondary till I take forever to get to the Desert(still haven't) in Chapter 1 or beat up some sparkly animals(What I used on my Tyrians) after I am required to go through a mission dependent on TWO competent teams in Vizunah. I learned my secondary quick when I picked it the first time?!?!

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I could care less what you have to say unless it contributes to the conversation.